Is a transgender man considered a man if he has the biological makeup of a woman?

My friend and I were discussing about transgender people and the issues that they face, and we landed on Thomas Beatie, the first man to give birth.





I said he wasn't a man, because he still has the biological makeup of a woman, even though he is legally a man.





I only want to know in medical terms and by law what makes a man a ';man';.Is a transgender man considered a man if he has the biological makeup of a woman?
When you have a sex change you can be legally changed to that sex...but they can't change the chromosomes so you are actually the sex you were born with and only your gender has changed.Is a transgender man considered a man if he has the biological makeup of a woman?
It depends on how you would define a man as. A true transman is somebody who is born female but has the gender identity of a male. Scientific tests have proven that the brain of a true transgender person functions almost exactly like the brain of someone whose birth sex and gender identity match up.





That said, transgendered people have to have their bodies medically modified to pass as the gender they they identify with, so no they were not physically born that sex. So no, transgender people aren't medically recognized as the sex they changed themselves into. But what really matters is how they feel on the inside, and that is most assuredly whatever their gender identity is. That's what truly defines a person as their gender. One does not decide they're transgender, they're born like that.





Different governments have different guidelines on the legal recognition of transgender people living as the opposite sex. It almost always at the very least requires affirmation by a well qualified therapist that the person has Gender Dysphoria (alternatively Gender Identity Disorder) and lives full time as their target gender. Some require full SRS in order for recognition, while some places like Texas do not recognize transgender people who live as the opposite birth sex.
';Man'; is a gendered term which is applied to male-identified individuals, most of whom are natal males. It's a social term, and is based on a person's gender identity and presentation rather than the presence or absence of male genitalia.





The legal requirements for changing a person's sex on official documentation (birth certificates, drivers licences, etc.) vary from place to place- some areas require GRS, while others only require a person to undergo hormone therapy and/or the ';real life experience'; test to change their documentation.





Thomas Beatie is a man. However, he is not an anatomical male- the two are separate concepts, though they are often correlated.
What exactly do you mean by ';the biological makeup of a woman';?





So he was born with a uterus and ovaries. Okay, but the anatomical sex of a person does not designate their gender. Look up the difference between the two.








GENDER is hardwired in the brain, you cannot change this through any surgery or psychological therapy.





ANATOMICAL SEX is what is between your legs. You can change this through surgery.





INTERSSEXUALITY is the birth defect in which the ANATOMICAL SEX is ambiguous and does not reflect the person's GENDER.





Hence, you cannot base ANATOMICAL SEX as what defines a person a ';male'; or ';female';.





TRANSSEXUALITY (also known as ';The Harry Benjamin Syndrome';) is a neurological congenital birth defect which is not too different from INTERSSEXUALITY. Instead, the ANATOMICAL SEX of a person is fully formed, rather than ambiguous, but does not match the GENDER of an individual.








AND








Thousands of individuals are born everyday who do not fall into the binary system of ';XY'; and ';XX'; chromosomes.





Here are examples:





1. XXY = Klinefelter's Syndrome





2. XXX = Triple X Sydrome





3. X = Turner Sydrome





4. XYY Syndrome








In many cases, these people are infertile. In many cases, these people are transsexual. And if you were to pull statistical data on how people born infertile is rising, this is not as uncommon as you may think.














My suggestion to you is: get properly educated first so you can propose valid claims and arguments. Otherwise you are simply spewing out assumptions based on ignorance. Thanks!
Well you cannot legally define male or female. There are too many exceptions. And the law is starting to realize this. Take a look at this recent court decision:





https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/sho鈥?/a>








That came out last Friday. This federal court judge ruled that gender identity is a component of what is commonly referred to as ';sex';. Thomas has a male gender identity and therefore that makes him legally male.





Medically gender identity has been recognized since the 60's.








So I think you need to eat crow on this one.
You only want to know in medical terms and by law eh? Well since no two counties, states, or provinces can come to terms on what that entails, it's all moot point.





And Beatie isn't the first man to give birth, he's just the most famous.





What makes a man a man is what lays between his ears, not his legs.





You say he has the biological make up of a woman, you're wrong. Unless you completely discount how the brain is developed in the uterus in your argument. There's more to what makes us who we are than XX or XY.
It's always worrisome to see how quickly people will slander/discount others simply because they are different.





When our children are young we try to teach them what is right. Among other lessons we teach them is:





It's what's on the INSIDE that counts. It's their strength of character and purpose that makes a person.





And yet when it comes to people born transsexual, in a fit of transphobia, we say just the opposite:





It's what is/was on the OUTSIDE that counts.








It's sad to see how quickly some people are to abandon their principles to condemn others. To judge others by body parts. And in many cases by body parts they no longer have!








Wake up people! What makes a person special and unique is what's on the inside. It's NOT the genitals, the chromosomes or hormones. It's their soul. When you dismiss people born transsexual in this manner it says that we as a society still have a long way to go to overcome prejudice and ignorance. One final thought by C.S. Lewis:





';You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a Body.';
I read that article. Yes, Thomas is a man.





What you or I or anyone else thinks about it is irrelevant. That's whether we agree or disagree. The only thing that's relevant is how he feels about himself.





I just wish *I* had been the first man to give birth. lol



I think they are simply male-female or female-male transgendered.





I think what is more important, however, is that they feel like a man or a woman and therefore society should view them as such.
You are normally referred to as whatever gender you present. If he presents himself as a man, then he is a man. Biologically, he is most likely intersexed.
He is a man, even though he was born with female parts. Being a man has more to do with brain development than hormones or chromosomes or the law
Nothing matters but the mind and spirit. That is what makes him a man!
The first thing to clarify here is that sex is different than gender.





Sex is defined as the genitals you were born with, the chromosomes, the hormones, all that. Gender is defined as what you consider yourself to be-- Thomas Beatie is male-gendered and female-sexed. It's important to understand, in the case of Thomas and other FtMs, that lower surgery (to covert a vagina into a penis) is VERY limited with modern technology. The two main options are: 1) get a very involved surgery where skin is removed from other parts of your body to construct a penis, and the penis will only be able to urinate and won't have any sexual stimulation, or 2) take testosterone (what Thomas and most FtMs do) to increase the size of the clitoris so it becomes akin to a small penis-- retaining sexual stimulation.





I feel the need to outline this because I have heard many people say, ';Well Thomas can't really be a guy if he didn't even want to get a penis surgery/kept his vagina!'; and it's just not that simple. The decision to get surgery is a big one, and when the surgery options are already limited, there's little one can do but keep what they have.





Your definition of what makes a man is very limited, not everyone is born with XX or XY, there are TONS of variations in chromosomes. And if you're basing your definition on genitals, keep in mind that many people aren't born with either, born with both, or can lose theirs in accidents. Likewise, not every man or woman is born with their internal reproductive system-- some women are even born without uteruses. It's easier, with all these possibilities-- and to be considerate to transgender individuals-- to consider someone the gender they prefer. Yes, Thomas may not be biologically a man, but that doesn't make him any LESS of a man than someone who was born with a penis. How many times have you seen a guy acting like an idiot and said to yourself, ';God, what a little boy. He doesn't even deserve to be called a man.'; Now think of Thomas, who underwent surgery to remove his chest, found and married a beautiful woman, and sacrificed his body and gender expression for nine months to give his wife the baby they both wanted so much. Now THAT is a man if I ever heard of one.





Legally, it depends on the state for transgender people. A lot of states won't change the legal marker until a person has had bottom surgery (a real problem for FtMs whose options are limited), some won't change the marker until the person has at least had top surgery, some won't change it until the person has lived as a male or female for a while, some won't change it unless the person is on hormones and has a notes, etc. I would look up the laws in your state if you are really curious, but it is a big legal hoop to jump through to get your marker changed.





Please remember that transgender people deserve respect and politeness just as any human being, and use common courtesy by calling them by the gender they prefer if you ever talk to them.
what makes a man a man, is on the insides, and i mean deeper than any human hand could touch, the emotions the thinking patterns that is what makes a man.





when a soon to be trans person is in their mothers womb sometimes a miscommunication between the brain and the body happens, we all start as females in the womb, and sometimes the body changes on time, and sometimes it doesnt and that could either be thats the body their supposed to have, or the message doesnt get through quick enough, or things get confused.





Their are even many christians who truely believe this aswell.





If someone is diagnoised with gender dysphoria they have been very well tested, they dont just supply the hormones etc to anyone that walks through their door, its a very long process, lots of counciling and pyscological testing.





for instance i smoke and i have my first meeting with a shrink very soon, in the letter it clearly states ';if you are a smoker and reach the stage of hormones you will have to quit and come back in 3 months';...so its not a day thing, its years and years.





so DNA or not, if someone is prepared to go through years of turmoil and a life time of discrimination just to feel comfortable in their own skin, then the least others could do is call them by the prounouns they should have always have been.





and this fuss about thomas, look yes he is a man as far as the law is concerned etc, he kept his womb for future use that he may or may not have needed, turned out later in life it was needed as his wife could not have children, he took a huge risk but he done it because the children is what he and his wife wanted, and hey if you have it...use it!
I am like Thomas Beatie.





I AM A MAN!!!!








Ask yourself this: If you ran into a biological man who was in some kind of horrific accident and had to have his penis amputated (don't ask me why..it just happened) would he stop being a man?? No. If a biological woman has cancer or something and has a hysterectomy and a double mascetomy, thus removing all signs of her ';womanhood';, does she stop being a woman?





GENDER is between the EARS, SEX is between the LEGS. Our bodies DO NOT define who we are as human beings and how we see the world and our self-defined role in it.





YOU my friend need to change your perspectives about what you think you know about male and female, and ';masculine'; and 'feminine';. Sex and gender identity are two separate things.





I too think from a very scientific, logical perspective. I'm a freakin' scientist for christs sake! But I'll tell you something. Just because I have XX chromosomes in my body, and a uterus, does NOT make me a woman! It makes me biologically FEMALE, but it does NOT make me a WOMAN.





LEGALLY and in medical terms, Thomas Beatie IS A MAN. And it's really not up to you, or what you think. He has had at least one permanent and irreversible surgery that's used to define sexual assignment of a person (he's had chest surgery to a male chest that can't be reversed. He's lost his breasts) and legally, he's had a gender change. HE IS A MALE, as am I.





So..sorry to cause your little brain to short circuit because of the cognitive dissonance you must be experiencing about all this, but the fact remains, transsexual go through too much sh*t to have you or anyone else tell us we aren't ';REAL'; men or women. YOU'RE NOT THE F**KING GENDER POLICE.